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Old 04-15-2010, 06:34 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
obviously, allot of stuff is not questioned - this is the problem
This doesn't need to be questionned as it's cristal clear in the arabic language. Maybe you're confused when you read the english translation of the book and maybe this is how the bible and the torah get deformed from the original message.
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:08 PM   #47
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This doesn't need to be questionned as it's cristal clear in the arabic language. Maybe you're confused when you read the english translation of the book and maybe this is how the bible and the torah get deformed from the original message.

maybe



so i guess that the english language is not good enough for us to get a clear understanding of who and what god is

we all have to speak arabic in order for us to find out

maybe we should drop our pride and come follow yall
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:11 PM   #48
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@ Sunny : The concept of the Oneness of god is the basis upon wich the whole religion is built, it is clearly certified in the Koran to the point that theres no doubt about it and can't be denied nor thought otherwise :

“And I have not created neither jinn nor humans, except to worship Me Alone.” (Quran 51:56)

“And indeed We have raised amongst every nation a messenger, (commanding them) ‘Worship God, and reject all false deities….” (Quran 16:36)

“Yet they have taken besides Him other gods that created nothing but are themselves created, and possess neither [the power to] harm nor benefit for themselves, and possess no power [of causing] death, nor [of giving] life, nor of raising the dead.” (Quran 25:3)

"Verily, those whom you worship besides God have no power to give you provision. So seek your provision from God (Alone), and worship Him (Alone), and be grateful to Him. To Him (Alone) you will be brought back.” (Quran 29:17)

“Is not He Who created the heavens and the earth and sends down for you water (rain) from the sky, whereby We cause to grow wonderful gardens full of beauty and delight? It is not in your ability to cause the growth of their trees. Is there any god along with Allah? Nay, but they are a people who ascribe equals (to Him)!” (Quran 27:60)

“God has not taken to Himself any son, nor is there any god with Him: for then each god would have taken of that which he created and some of them would have risen up over others.” (Quran 23:1)

“…Or have you taken unto yourself others beside Him to be your protectors, even such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves?...” (Quran 13:16)

“He is God; there is no god but He. He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God; there is no god but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of the Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God, the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the Almighty, the All-Wise.” (Quran 59:22-24)

“There is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows what lies before them, and what is after them, and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His footstool extends over the heavens and the earth. The preserving of them oppresses Him not; He is the All-High, the All-Glorious.” (Quran 2:255)

Sorry but it's not even insinuated in english too.

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Old 04-15-2010, 08:44 PM   #49
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if i relied on the Quaran to give me a clear understanding of who and What Allah is and isn't, i'd believe like you do - i already explained that there is One Supreme - the word God, is a plural word - ALLAH can be seen as that one supreme being if you like -

the word Eloheem is plural - it got translated as God -

in hebrew, the word or title Eloheem is plural - El or Eloh is singular
God is an us
as in let US make man in OUR image

and the Quaran clearly states that it is a confirmation of the book before it

if you don't have knowledge on the book that the Quaran is CONFIRMING, then you cannot properly understand the Quaran - and if that book that came before it is corrupt, then the Quaran is based off of a corrupt book - maybe WE do have that understanding of the scriptures that most of the world is blind to - maybe the world indirectly looks to us for understanding, and directly rejects the understanding that's coming directly at them - God is beyond the bible or quaran - and the concept should not be limited to whats written in any book
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:19 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
the word Eloheem is plural - it got translated as God -

in hebrew, the word or title Eloheem is plural - El or Eloh is singular
God is an us
as in let US make man in OUR image
This concept is a complete falsehood, it is the way the jews follow to justify their idea to beign superior to the other human beigns. But the truth is are men are equal whether they're black, white, yellow, green, american, european, african or chinese, we all made from the exact same material.

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and the Quaran clearly states that it is a confirmation of the book before it
The original book not the bibles and the torah as known today.

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
if you don't have knowledge on the book that the Quaran is CONFIRMING, then you cannot properly understand the Quaran - and if that book that came before it is corrupt, then the Quaran is based off of a corrupt book -
I would love to read the original book the Quran is confirming, but I doubt this book still exist ; there's a little bit of it on each bible.

the Quran is not BASED ON the previous book, it is the word of god as the rest of them. It's confirming the original message of the previous book, it has the same source if you want, it's not a remix of an old book or a movie based on a novel.

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maybe WE do have that understanding of the scriptures that most of the world is blind to - maybe the world indirectly looks to us for understanding, and directly rejects the understanding that's coming directly at them -
?????
If we understand it's good for us, if we don't noobody could make us change our mind untill we'll realise it by ourselves. On the other hand the message is very clear and at this point it doesnt need a go-between ; god is one, believe in Him and associate no one to him. If you do so you're a true believer... That's the message that Abraham discovered by himself observing the nature, the same message was sent to Noah, Jonas, David, Salomon, that's what Moses wanted to convince Pharaoh about and that's what Jesus brought to the Israelites and what's Muhammad said to his people when they were worshipping idols. It's as simple as that and there's no need to read dbetween the lines; each time a civilisation turn their back to the unique god a mesenger was sent by this god in his infinite kindness to make them take the right path.

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God is beyond the bible or quaran - and the concept should not be limited to whats written in any book
See above.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:21 PM   #51
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Common sense - the supreme being is one and not many.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:23 PM   #52
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If there was more than one, you would see chaos in the heavens.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:05 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
This concept is a complete falsehood, it is the way the jews follow to justify their idea to beign superior to the other human beigns. But the truth is are men are equal whether they're black, white, yellow, green, american, european, african or chinese, we all made from the exact same material.


the reality of the situation is that man doesn't treat man equally
there is race division
but that's not all brother kills brother and there are muslims against muslims and christians against christians division everywhere



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
The original book not the bibles and the torah as known today.

then, you have a receipt to something you've never seen
you bought into it



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Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
I would love to read the original book the Quran is confirming, but I doubt this book still exist ; there's a little bit of it on each bible.
show us that little bit

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Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
the Quran is not BASED ON the previous book, it is the word of god as the rest of them.

i don't understand the "as the rest of them" part

what other ones ?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
It's confirming the original message of the previous book, it has the same source if you want, it's not a remix of an old book or a movie based on a novel.

god,mary,jesus,moses, all in it - not saying that it's a remix, i'm saying it's a conformation -

it's like in the future, they find resident evil 3 and have to start from there in understanding the root story and purpose of the 3rd movie, so they gather around and guest what part 1 was like, come up with a believable story, and make believers of this drawn up conclusion of something that is said could not be explained, just believe it.....or else....your skin will burn off forever and ever



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Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
?????
If we understand it's good for us, if we don't noobody could make us change our mind untill we'll realise it by ourselves.
that's how it is


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Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
On the other hand the message is very clear and at this point it doesnt need a go-between ;

it's clear from your view of the book...only


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Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
god is one, believe in Him and associate no one to him. If you do so you're a true believer...
very popular religious slogan that gets thrown around often


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Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
That's the message that Abraham discovered by himself observing the nature, the same message was sent to Noah, Jonas, David, Salomon, that's what Moses wanted to convince Pharaoh about and that's what Jesus brought to the Israelites and what's Muhammad said to his people when they were worshipping idols. It's as simple as that and there's no need to read dbetween the lines;

very popular misunderstood stories that has people at war RIGHT NOW as we live while great men are making history as we type but we don't recognize because we are looking for an ancient understanding of todays times - look for todays moses,davids, and salomons



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each time a civilisation turn their back to the unique god a mesenger was sent by this god in his infinite kindness to make them take the right path.

one was sent to each civilisation ?
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:48 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
the reality of the situation is that man doesn't treat man equally
there is race division
but that's not all brother kills brother and there are muslims against muslims and christians against christians division everywhere
It's up to us to change this, even if the devil try to fool us we can treat each other as we want to be treated ourselves. It's not because it is that way that we have to take it as granted, like I said it's just up to us to change it.


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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
then, you have a receipt to something you've never seen
you bought into it
It is what we've been told in the Quran.

14. “And from those who said: ‘We are Christians,’ We took their Covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message which was sent to them. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, and Allah will inform them of what they used to do.
15. O people of the Scripture! Now has Our messenger (Muhammad) come to you, explaining to you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Indeed, there has come to you a light from Allah and a plain Scripture." (Quran 5:14-15)



“Then woe to those who write the book with their own hands and then say: ‘This is from God’, to traffic with it for a miserable price. Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby.” (Quran 2:79)


+ alot of christians scholars admit there's too much contradictions in the book.

Dr. W Graham Scroggie of the Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, a prestigious Christian evangelical mission, says: “..Yes, the Bible is human, although some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men and bear in their style the characteristics of men….It is Human, Yet Divine,”


Another Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says:
“...Not so the New Testament...There is condensation and editing; there is choice reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the church behind the authors. They represent experience and history...”
“It is well known that the primitive Christian Gospel was initially transmitted by word of mouth and that this oral tradition resulted in variant reporting of word and deed. It is equally true that when the Christian record was committed to writing it continued to be the subject of verbal variation. Involuntary and intentional, at the hands of scribes and editors.”
“Yet, as a matter of fact, every book of the New Testament with the exception of the four great Epistles of St. Paul is at present more or less the subject of controversy, and interpolations are asserted even in these.”


Dr. Lobegott Friedrich Konstantin Von Tischendorf, one of the most adamant conservative Christian defenders of the Trinity was himself driven to admit that:
“[the New Testament had] in many passages undergone such serious modification of meaning as to leave us in painful uncertainty as to what the Apostles had actually written”

+ logically speakin, a book that's originally not agreed on a single version from it (The Gospel according to Saint Matthew,The Gospel according to Saint Luke,The Gospel according to Saint Mark,The Gospel according to Saint John...etc) been translated numerous times because the original language is now a dead language, there's a very small chance that we have it as it came. On the other side, the Quran came in arabic, a language that still used today (the exact same language) and there's only one copy of the book (I wish you can read arabic so you'll realise that there's only one quran in arabic, the english versionS are translations).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
show us that little bit
OK, let's not quote all the prophets' stories ; Adam (the garden of Eden, the tree, , the expell from paradise), Noah (the flood, the ark, the couples of animals etc...), Abraham (father of Ismael and Isaac), Joseph (the jealousy of their brothers then the most powerful man in Egypt and close to the Pharaoh), David (versus Goliath), Salomon (the Queen of Saba, her throne etc..), Moses (confrontation with the magicians of Pharaoh, splittin the sea, recievin the commandments), Jonas (the whale), Jesus (born without a father, spoke when a baby, reviving the dead, etc...). etc etc etc...

Let's tal about the precepts :

Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't commit adultery, help the poor, the orphan and the sick, modesty, justice, honesty, generosity, kindness to the parents, freedom, respect, truthworthiness etc... these are common to the three books/religions.

Finally let's talk about the attributes of god :
WITHOUT PARTNERS
'The Lord is One' (Deuteronomy 6:4) 'Say: He is God, the One ' (Quran 112:1)
SUPREME
'above all gods' (Psalm 135:5) 'Glorify the name of your Lord the Highest' (Quran 87:1)
ALL KNOWING
'His understanding is infinite' (Psm 147:5) '...and of all things He is the Knower' (Quran 2:29)
ETERNAL
'He who lives forever' (Isaiah 57:15) '...God, the Eternal ' (Quran 112:2)
HOLY
'He is holy' (Psalm 99:5) 'the Holy'(Quran 62:1)
RIGHTEOUS
'The Lord is righteous' (Psalm 11:7) '...the Right in Guidance' (Quran 11:87)
LOVING
'He loves righteousness' (Psalm 7:11) '..indeed full of mercy and love' (Quran 110)
WRATHFUL
'Your wrath .brings You praise' (Psalm 76:10) '...We shall exact due retribution' (Quran 32:22)
MERCIFUL
'merciful' (Psalm 145:8) 'In the Name of God, the Merciful ...' (Quran 1:1)
COMPASIONATE
'The Lord is..compassionate' (Psalm 111:4 ) 'In the Name of God, ..the Compassionate..' (Quran 1:1)
THE TRUTH
'God is not man, that He should lie' Num 23:19 "...God is the Truth..." (Quran 22:6)

+ alot of other stuff
: Kosher and Halal, Shalom/Salaam, circumcision, don't eat pork, don't drink wine (see my topic on the subject), women and the veil (veil in islam = religious women workin in churchs).
The opening Surah of the Quran is very comparable to the traditional Jewish liturgy. Traditional Jewish blessings generally begin with:
Baruch Atta Adonai, Eloheynu Melech HaOlam
"Blessed are you Lord our God, King of the universe/world"
Surah 1:1 reads (in Hebrew):
Baruch L'Elohim, Ribon HaOlamim
"Blessing to Elohim, Master of the Worlds."


Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
i don't understand the "as the rest of them" part

what other ones ?
The other books in their original form ; the Bible, the Torah

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
god,mary,jesus,moses, all in it - not saying that it's a remix, i'm saying it's a conformation -

it's like in the future, they find resident evil 3 and have to start from there in understanding the root story and purpose of the 3rd movie, so they gather around and guest what part 1 was like, come up with a believable story, and make believers of this drawn up conclusion of something that is said could not be explained, just believe it.....or else....your skin will burn off forever and ever
No it's more like in the future, they release RE 12.

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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
it's clear from your view of the book...only
1+1=2, you're like trying to prove 1+1=3. Trying to hide the truth to yourself and diggin and diggin to make it seem more complex so it can suit your point of view when it's really simple : 1 god >>>>>> human beigns and simple mortals made from flesh and bones that possess a soul that have to return to this god one day.

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very popular religious slogan that gets thrown around often
by who ? (that's exactely the type of answers you give yourself )


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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
very popular misunderstood stories that has people at war RIGHT NOW as we live while great men are making history as we type but we don't recognize because we are looking for an ancient understanding of todays times - look for todays moses,davids, and salomons
OK I better stop typing and go try to achieve great things, C ya later bro !

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one was sent to each civilisation ?
Alot of them, we only know a few prophets, in Islam it is believen there was 124000 prophets.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:56 PM   #55
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damn shit just blew my mind i never thought about that i need to take this nto cosderation
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:48 PM   #56
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Common sense - the supreme being is one and not many.
Common sense is fleeting in most aspects of the world today, especially this forum.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:23 PM   #57
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who said that the supreme being is not one and many ?

there is only one supreme being


how is it common to sense that though ?
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:37 PM   #58
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@ Sunny : this post was in part directed to you, you have no answer ?

@ praise the almeity : if you have any question don't hesitate.
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:25 PM   #59
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@ Sunny : this post was in part directed to you, you have no answer ?

@ praise the almeity : if you have any question don't hesitate.
Props Akhi.

Sallam
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:29 PM   #60
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I suppose I could clear this up with one post. But no one ever listens to me.

no one ever listens to us.

they put us on reservations.

they call us names like primitive, pagan, and less advanced.
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