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LORD NOSE 04-13-2009 08:24 PM

Moses And The Wise Man
 
Surah (18.64-81)


Al-Kahf

He said: This is that which we have been seeking. So they retraced their steps again.


(64)
Then found they one of Our slaves, unto whom We had given mercy from Us, and had taught him knowledge from Our presence.
(65)
Moses said unto him: May I follow thee, to the end that thou mayst teach me right conduct of that which thou hast been taught?
(66)
He said: Lo! thou canst not bear with me.
(67)
How canst thou bear with that whereof thou canst not compass any knowledge?
(68)
He said: Allah willing, thou shalt find me patient and I shall not in aught gainsay thee.
(69)
He said: Well, if thou go with me, ask me not concerning aught till I myself mention of it unto thee.
(70)
So they twain set out till, when they were in the ship, he made a hole therein. (Moses) said: Hast thou made a hole therein to drown the folk thereof? Thou verily hast done a dreadful thing.
(71)
He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me?
(72)
(Moses) said: Be not wroth with me that I forgot, and be not hard upon me for my fault.
(73)
So they twain journeyed on till, when they met a lad, he slew him. (Moses) said: What! Hast thou slain an innocent soul who hath slain no man? Verily thou hast done a horrid thing.


(74)
He said: Did I not tell thee that thou couldst not bear with me?
(75)
(Moses) said: If I ask thee after this concerning aught, keep not company with me. Thou hast received an excuse from me.
(76)
So they twain journeyed on till, when they came unto the folk of a certain township, they asked its folk for food, but they refused to make them guests. And they found therein a wall upon the point of falling into ruin, and he repaired it. (Moses) said: If thou hadst wished, thou couldst have taken payment for it.
(77)
He said: This is the parting between thee and me! I will announce unto thee the interpretation of that thou couldst not bear with patience. (78) As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working on the river, and I wished to mar it, for there was a king behind them who is taking every ship by force.
(79)
And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.
(80)
And we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in purity and nearer to mercy.
(81)
And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city, and there was beneath it a treasure belonging to them, and their father had been righteous, and thy Lord intended that they should come to their full strength and should bring forth their treasure as a mercy from their Lord; and I did it not upon my own command. Such is the interpretation of that wherewith thou couldst not bear.


diggy 04-14-2009 09:02 PM

That is one of my favorite stories.

What did you learn from it?

Urban_Journalz 04-15-2009 12:52 PM

^^Word. Mine too.

What I got from it, is that even the most patient men can be impatient at times. They can be taken-a-back and left to wonder, "Wtf?"

This is not only a lesson in patience, but in contemplation and trust. If Moses (pbuh) can be reduced to a student who knows nothing, then the wiser ones among the people of today should take every pre-caution not to jump into the pool before we know the temperature.

LORD NOSE 04-15-2009 01:05 PM

i learned patience and understanding

the wise man did things that the people didn't traditionally do

he had a higher mission and most cannot see the good in it

another example of how messengers and saviors get mocked, spit on and sometimes killed by those fixed in old minded traditional ways

diggy 04-15-2009 05:04 PM

Thanks, both of you.

What I got from it is, when you see (with foresight) an evil that is about to happen, it is more effective to take preventative action than to verbally warn someone. If you warn them, they may not listen and the bad thing could happen, but if you prevent the bad thing (like sinking the boat), then you have saved the owners of it from unnecessary harm.

When the wise man, fixed the wall, he ensured that the owners of the treasure would use it for good since they were good people.

Moses made judgements without knowledge; he was reactive. When in the presence of someone who has more wisdom, we should listen and observe.

This story gives examples of "enjoining the good and forbiding evil", "avoiding evil", and that good people should support each other.

LORD NOSE 04-15-2009 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-unknown (Post 1548059)
When in the presence of someone who has more wisdom, we should listen and observe.

how would we recognize such a person ?

especially if they killing kids and sinking boats and stuff

diggy 04-15-2009 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS (Post 1548093)
how would we recognize such a person ?

especially is they killing kids and sinking boats and stuff

I think we would recognize that person after the act, when he explains the reasoning behind what he did (like the wise man). Through time, the truth will be revealed.

LORD NOSE 04-15-2009 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-unknown (Post 1548149)
I think we would recognize that person after the act, when he explains the reasoning behind what he did (like the wise man). Through time, the truth will be revealed.


after the explaining i'm sure Moses would have complained or got in the way of another mission -

diggy 04-15-2009 07:33 PM

That is why we need to suspend judgement until all the facts are available.

Moses did not know who the boat belonged to or why it was sunk.

He did not know who the child was and why he was killed.

He also did not know why the wall was repaired.

He was missing information so he misunderstood what was done.

The wise man had to explain the meanings to him.

Mumm Ra 04-15-2009 07:35 PM

be that wise man yourself
like was said, first learn patience and understanding
don't take things on face value and come to hasty conclusions
look listen observe

LORD NOSE 04-15-2009 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-unknown (Post 1548178)
He was missing information so he misunderstood what was done.

The wise man had to explain the meanings to him.


Moses knew the man was Wise - thats why he asked to follow the man -
The man don't have time and space to explain every move to Moses -

Moses Knowing that the man was wise should have just chilled and watched, then asked questions - later

in this story, Moses wasn't a good student, soldier, or follower -

why did he ask to follow that man in the first place ?

diggy 04-15-2009 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS (Post 1548197)
Moses knew the man was Wise - thats why he asked to follow the man -
The man don't have time and space to explain every move to Moses -

Moses Knowing that the man was wise should have just chilled and watched, then asked questions - later

in this story, Moses wasn't a good student, soldier, or follower -

why did he ask to follow that man in the first place ?

I agree.

Moses wanted to learn of the knowledge the wise man was given.

Memory Man 04-15-2009 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS (Post 1546197)
(79) And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.
(80)
And we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in purity and nearer to mercy.



so he was killed because of his disbelief?

diggy 04-15-2009 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memory Man (Post 1548317)



so he was killed because of his disbelief?

No.

It was just a bad translation.

In better explanations of the translation, the son was killed because he was a dangerous outlaw who did very bad things and his parents could possibly be his next victims.

LORD NOSE 04-15-2009 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memory Man (Post 1548317)


so he was killed because of his disbelief?


Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS
(79) And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.
(80) And we intende


We (Allah) feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief


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